The Andy D'Addario Special (Part 3)


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Aug 29, 2008

A continuing series of interviews through the eyes of YOU, our Teams, Promoters, Tracks, Sanctioning Bodies, and Fans…

Champion Speedway.

On December 27, 2005 Les Kynett, promoter of Champion Speedway, kindly took some time out from his busy schedule to give us a promoters insight to our past and future. Les really looks back to our past, the "glory days" of short track racing. And I think there are a number of points we can seize from our past, and apply it to our future.

Andy Daddario: Do you see anything as far as a multi-purpose kind of facility? You touched on that a bit ago.

Les Kynett: Well from a private venture they are building one at Castle Air Force Base down there by Merced. And it sounds they will have a lot of amenities that they will put into that track. That has some strong possibilities. Because if you can rent your track out during the week for people to come in and run their sports car, tire testing, shock testing, Raybestos brake testing, then you can cover that huge overhead. You have to rely on about 4 major attendance draw events as a multi-purpose facility. Also, it better be State supported as a fairgrounds. I see it that way....I Just....I know the costs, I know what it takes, and I would rather be optimistic in what I’m trying to tell you.

But on the other hand, I’ve seen it from the start of the Saturday Night Program to what I think right now, is its demise. I think the Saturday Night Program, as we’ve known it, is on its way out. And those tracks closing, and that publication that supported strictly Saturday Night type of short track racing.....Racing Wheels....is gone. And no one has stepped up to fill the bill because they know there is not enough. I asked Dale Rettiger up there, "what’s your circulation". He goes about 9000. In 1990 when I used to advertise in that paper for the Supermodified Tour it was a 40,000 circulation. This year it was 9000. That’s a 75 percent drop. It’s terrible.

I just see that auto racing will continue to grow, but I see it growing on the NASCAR level of terms. USAC and NASCAR had been working together to bring the Silver Crown forward. Are you familiar with the new Silver Crown car?

A: Yes, I’ve seen it. It’s a bit of a combination of stock car and Silver Crown. Are they running that this upcoming season? Will I see it in Phoenix?

L: There are not enough of them built, and the $500,000 prototype was a joint effort.

Do you know why? They need a support series. When the NASCAR Winston Cup cars of 5 years ago would go to a weekend race, they would always have to have a support group. Busch, then the Trucks came in as a support group, ARCA also, because it really is a Thursday through Sunday type of venture. Now the trucks have become so popular that they can operate on their own racing Saturday night or Sunday, and NASCAR Busch has become popular enough doing the same. But they all need a support group, where do they get it? Well, the NW/SW Tour combining into one new Touring series for NASCAR will suffice on one end of it. There’s a lot of open wheel fans that would never buy a ticket to a Top 3 show. But if we had Sprints, Midgets, Silver Crown, we would get them to buy the 2 day ticket, and stay for the Saturday/Sunday programs, whatever it might be. By helping USAC there would be a tremendous amount of interest from people that weren’t fendered fans into coming to a track if the Crown cars, Sprint Cars, or the midgets were there. Now the Sprints and Midgets can really only be on a mile track or less. They won’t work at Daytona or Las Vegas. I mean Phoenix can get bad enough with a Midget or Sprint Car crash. So they re-designed the SilverCrown car that was really a mile maximum car to now run on the mile and a half tracks. The aerodynamic package of that new Silver Crown car is designed, with its carbon fiber tub body and all, to run as a companion event to those NASCAR shows on mile and a half , 2 mile, and maybe even 2 ½ mile tracks. If it works out and there is enough participation from the USAC car owners, primarily Silver Crown, then you’ll see the Crown cars maybe develop into a car that will run open wheel on a 2 ½ mile track. And that will be a companion event to the successful NASCAR program. What IRL wants for just one race, USAC will be able to provide Sprints, Midgets, and Silver Crown as a companion event.

A: Oh interesting, I’m headed to Phoenix in a few weeks. Wonder if I’ll see one out there. (as we found out, yes they did run this new car)

A: Who were some of the drivers who raced at Carson?

L: Former track champion in 1991 was Steve Portenga, and he as you know has moved up to Trucks and the West Series. He was also a 2 time Southwest Tour champion and rookie of the year I believe.

A: Yes, followed him for years. He’s one of those local heroes that did return to Touring after the Trucks. Thanks Steve....

L: He’s a local kid who started racing the foreign stocks here back in the late 80’s. And won what they call the Late Model Sportsman championship in 91. So he would be our foremost fellow. Another one that has come through the program here at Champion is Darryl Krentz. He is now the INEX Executive Director of Operations. The Legends Cars back at Charlotte. He also raced West.

A: Love the Legends. They have figured out how to race inexpensively. We need to take a hard look at what they’ve done and apply it in other divisions. Every so often, I toy with the idea of buying a car and starting in Legends. And people actually show up in that division.

L: Yes, absolutely. If it wasn’t for our Legends program here the last 2 years, we would have had virtually no car count.

A: Wow, that say’s a lot. And Mckenna Bell won the championship the final night I was there.....Correct?

L: Yes, she won the championship. Little 15 year old high school sophomore this year. She was invited to Lyn St. James private school at Phoenix. I think she was there for about 5 days a month or so ago in early November. It’s a school to teach you how to talk on television, how to talk to sponsors, how to sell yourself, and how to drive a race car too. It’s an invitational only for young upcoming women. Danica Patrick was one of the persons who attended that school 2 years ago. So she’s a young lady that has a future in racing. And she’s moving on now. She’ll continue to race her Legend until she turns 16 in June. Then she’s gonna race a Ford Focus Midget.

A: So we’ll probably see her out at Irwindale down the road.

L: Yeah, she’s gonna run that. Otherwise, Steve Portenga is really the only one of notability. A lot of them that were local heroes for a short time, moved on to the Tour, spent their fortune, got divorced, and never came back.

A: See, that’s is one of the problems for sure. You’re absolutely right. You move up to the Tour to get noticed, and it is just so unnecessarily expensive, you just don’t end up coming back. The new combined West, how many are really going to be able to afford that?

L: Yes right. Very few. It won’t be the guy that had his car at a gas station, that’s for sure. It will be some very wealthy person who has a big race shop facility, and money is not a problem. But there is not many of those guys around.

A: This seems all bad, the consolidation.

L: I don’t see it reversing itself. I don’t see a resurgence of the action packed Saturday Night program as we knew it. I do not see that happening. I see auto racing continuing to be a very popular spectator sport, a television sport.

A: And for my big question, though I think you’ve answered this.....Do you have any plans for the future; do you ever intend to come back to the sport?

L: Probably not, certainly not as a Saturday Night race promoter. Not as a promoter of any race track, just anywhere. If a couple of my friends get involved in some high lines of the racing programs. A couple of them have asked me if I would consider coming in and being involved. And, I would always consider that. But it would not be in the involvement of any Saturday Night Short Track program.

A: No, doesn’t sound like it....geesh, you’re not leaving any gray area there.

L: If someone gave me the track. Les, here it is for free. I still wouldn’t do it.

A: We need experienced promoters like you with us.

L: The enthusiasm factor for me just wouldn’t be there. And knowing where the industry is going on this Saturday Night short track deal, I see it diminishing year after year. I mean Hanford is in trouble, Visalia, Santa Maria, Madera is very fragile though they have new people down there. They are actually old people that have come back.

A: Oh, didn’t know that.

L: Rick Gerhardt had the contract with Ken Clapp for several years at Madera Speedway. And Rick Gerhardt is Hoosier tires West. Do you know Rick?

A: No, I don’t..

L: He’s the Western States Hoosier tire dealer. Rick’s dad was an Indy car owner. Rick and Ken Clapp were co promoters at Madera for a number of years. Then Gerhardt took it over by himself, and then he left seeing the problems. Crowds were way down, car counts were down, it’s a fairgrounds track, Madera County fairgrounds supported by the County and the State Fair association, but you still can’t make it. So they are fragile, Altamont has a change of operators there now, they leased it out to some new people.

A: Yes, noticed the Riverside Motorsports Park people are there.

L: So that’s fragile. I ran Altamont in 1991 reopened it after it had been closed for 12 or 13 years. The one factor at Altamont that’s always there that will kill you every race day...........is the wind.

So anybody with any sense would not go into Altamont with investment money unless someone said I’m going to put a covered bleacher grandstand here. Because the fans are literally blown apart there. I mean literally! You would have to be there for a few of the events to see how ruthless the wind actually is. The problem at Altamont is not its location, not its shape; it’s the wind factor that you’re never going to cure. Even if you put covered grandstands in that protect the fans, the drivers in the pits are beaten apart up there.

A: That’s on my list of tracks to visit, I didn’t make it there this past season.

L: Definitely take in the track, it’s a magnificent site and facility. And if it weren’t for that wind factor, that would be a very, very successful track. It was built in 1966 and it’s never enjoyed one season of success. It never has enjoyed one season where you could come back and say "Wow, I’m sure glad we did this". I mean I put some money in there in 1991, about $30,000 getting it reopened as a look see. And I had enough, and I said "no way, I’m outta here". And I was doing it from emotion rather than the practicality of a good business investment.

A: Yes, I guess that’s what many of us run on.

L: I used to, but I don’t do that any more

A: I certainly do understand. It’s tough, very tough. And one of my goals of this interview is passing on how difficult it actually is to open the gates. Just keeping the doors open is a huge challenge, and EVERY ONE OF US is really involved more than they think. OUR sport is "open for business" only about 25 days a year. How many businesses run like that?

Ok, despite all that Les. Do you have any words of advice for our Promoters, Racers, Sponsors, and Fans?

L: PROMOTERS: I would consider that they are going to go into a new business EVERY Saturday night. I don’t think they can rest on what they did last Saturday night. I think a promoter has to look at today’s Saturday Night short track business as opening a NEW business this upcoming Saturday night. Do everything that he would do to promote that business for this upcoming Saturday night. Cause if you miss it, you’ve lost a Saturday, you’ve lost the money, you can’t make it up at the end of the season.

My advice, when your promoter is standing up there on Saturday night, watching all the tail lights leave his stadium, his attitude should be I HAVE A BRAND NEW BUSINESS OPENING THIS NEXT SATURDAY NIGHT. I’ve gotta do everything I can in my power, in my volume of knowledge and experience, to generate fan interest to have them buy tickets next Saturday night. If he doesn’t do that every week, he’s gonna be out of business, my opinion.

RACERS: Lobby your track or association for lower costs.

SPONSORS: It’s a great investment in the right venue. Remember race fans are loyal to their sport.

FANS: I think the fan needs to be entertained as an "affordable" family price. They are going to have to find some way of getting box office ticket prices affordable for fans to attend on Saturday night. If you have a paid parking policy, eliminate that immediately. If my race fan has to pay to park on my property, I’m just writing a ticket for going out of business.

A: More important points, very powerful when you break those thoughts down.

L: Here’s another analogy that kinda handles the thing too. (Keeping the price affordable for the family). Say well geez I get 10 bucks right now. Well you get 10 dollars right now, but you’re only getting 600 people in a stadium that holds 3000. So if you cut it to $5 and triple your attendance to 1800, doesn’t that become more attractive to a sponsor who will give you a couple of thousand a month to advertise his business out there in front of 2000 as opposed to 600 people?

A: It makes complete sense to me.

L: See there’s the little gamut that a lot of people don’t understand. I have often said Champion speedway, we have 3000 seats, I am never going to sell 3000 seats at ten dollars a piece. I would like to, but I wonder if I gave every seat away. Racing every Saturday I’m guaranteed 3000 people. I would make it up in beer and hot dog sales.

A: Ok, so why, with the utmost respect here, why didn’t you do it?

L: Yes, it just a thought. It’s a "food for thought" item. I knew I could not get 3000 people. It would take me half of a season to get generated enough people to fill it up every Saturday night with 3000 people...

A: Even free.

L: Even free. I couldn’t just say on the Monday ad "Free this Saturday night at the races". I wouldn’t get 3000 people. I would have my 600 that buy tickets, get in for free. I would have another 2-300 show up for free. I wouldn’t have the 3000 to justify a no cost at the front gate. They wouldn’t spend enough at the concessions.

Ya know this is just an illustration. We don’t have to give the ticket away, but to me if a race ticket were say $5, and kids were free, so for $10 a family can come in. And if you’ve got a relatively low cost operation, all of a sudden you become something that people that aren't even race fans will come to your racetracks as part of their entertainment program. "Geez, it’s only $5 per person, for $10 we can bring the whole family, for $10". While they’re there we’re filling the seats, pleasing our sponsors, and selling a ton of concessions.

If you take your concession dollars and add them to your front gate and back gate as everyone does, it is just one bowl of money to payout. See, I would rather have 1800 people at $5 than 600 people at $10. Because number 1, I’m going to have more fans out there that are going to draw more sponsors awareness, it’s gonna help me. I’m gonna sell more Pepsi, so Pepsi is going to give me a better deal next year. I’m going to sell more Budweiser, so Budweiser is going to look at me differently next year, maybe give me a couple of thousand more in sponsorship. And, more people in the grandstands 1800 as opposed to 600. Some people are going to say "Hey, I can get a car and come out here next season and do that, I can drive just as well as these guys". So he’s gonna buy a Pure Stock or a Foreign Stock or a Legend or something. And I’m going to draw people from the grandstands that are now going to be competitors. They’re going to pay a $20 pit pass and their family will still be in the grandstands. It has a rolling dice effect.

A: Again, I agree. I’m not a promoter, don’t know a thing about it really. Though it is obvious all of these points work together. It has to work together.

L: It does. Concession dollars, if you are the operator and concessionaire, the concession dollars are added to the front and back gate into one bowl of money. If you have another concessionaire, then you are going to have to rely on your front and back gate, and he’s gonna do what he’s gonna do.

A: Well as a promoter who knows this stuff, you’ve put it out there for someone to try....

L: Well, you know. It is. If there were any advice to potential promoters, or promoters that are looking for another way. Maybe you have to make it more affordable. Because by making it more affordable you are going to get more people, which has the potential to create more drivers, which has the potential certainly to attract bigger and better sponsors, or even more sponsors. To advertise in front of 1800 makes a lot more sense than to advertise in front of 600. And also your drivers will come out of your grandstands. Most drivers at tracks aren’t born a driver and just wait until they’re 18 and get their suit and come out and drive. They’re a fan in the grandstands watching it. They say to their buddies, "hey let’s do that next year". So then you have more car count, and more car count generates more interest to the people that are buying tickets and coming in.

Let’s do some quick math here. If you had $10 a ticket times 600 tickets that’s $6000. If you had 1800 tickets at $5, that’s $9000. So now I’ve got a $9000 front gate over a $6000 front gate, and I’ve got 1200 more people to buy hot dogs, 1200 more people a gross of $7 is $8400 gross more in the concession. And here’s the factor. Your concession dollar, 30 percent of every dollar sold in the concession is cost. Product, hot dog, bun, wrapper, relish, plastic spoon, whatever.

A: So obviously, a 70 percent profit.

L: Right 70 percent profit, so I take away 30 percent of $8400 and I take another $3000 at the front all of a sudden that makes a lot of sense. Well I think the point is to run the numbers and maybe you don’t need 10 dollars, maybe you just need 5.00. Or they’re gonna say that’s bullshit, I can’t sell a $5.00 ticket. But if you can attract 1800 people out there.

A: Doesn’t matter, right!

L: Then all of a sudden it’s a pretty good deal.

A: It’s pretty simple business stuff. It’s just who is going to be the first to jump in and do it? Are you ready?
(big laugh from both of us here)

L: And you know here’s one thing too. I know I didn’t come in as a racer, I came in as a concessionaire. But most Saturday Night short track promoters, primarily Fairgrounds tracks, they are promoted by racers. They see it from the racers point of view. They don’t see it from a concessionaire or a business mans point of view. They see the race promotion business from a racers point of view, and that’s bad. That contributes to a lot of the industry’s problems, and failures. Their decisions will be based on what is best for the Racer, rather than the fan or the sponsor.

A: It really has to be from the sponsors and fans point of view, at least financially. That’s what pays the bills.

L: There you go. They will come in and say, "guys there is no more pit passes at $25, it’s gonna be a $10 pass for everybody in the pits, and we’re going to up the admission price from $10 adult to $15 adult.

A: Based on everything we covered today, that is never going to work, is it?

L: See, you and I were talking about $5 admission.

A: Right, I’m assuming that taking that route, they are thinking bringing in more cars will fix the problem.

L: Yes, they’re looking from a Racers point of view.

A: Yes, I definitely see your point. I think we often forget who are real fans are. The plumber, electrician, welder, the service manager, people who cannot afford $100 to take a family to the races every Saturday. That’s where all our minds need to be, with our hard core fan. Number 1, it’s gotta be affordable so people can show up EVERY Saturday for a FUN night at the races.

L: Every Saturday. Gasoline is over $3 a gallon right now, those are all factors.

A: At the income types we are speaking of, as to your basic race fan, you better work your costs backwards from there. For me, as a race fan, I don’t really care how fast the cars are running. You know, I love the Tour, but if they are running 5 miles an hour slower, I’m NEVER going to notice. Because if we’ve done our jobs, they’re running 3 wide into turn 1. If it will save money, which will really in turn bring fans.

L: Right, you and everybody else would not notice. Might even save a lot of money by running 5 mile an hour slower too.

A: Yeah, I mean we need to look at everything, motor, chassis, haulers from the West to Hobby Stocks. Let’s make racing economical again. LIKE IN OUR PAST. I don’t know how to do it, cost caps like baseball. I don’t know, but over time, the goal needs to be dramatic. And I believe it would take a lot of "PRESSURE" (you guys know what I’m talking about) off between the promoters, race directors, officials, and teams.

L: Yes, absolutely. Well my closing statement to you would be this. Bob Barkhimer told me this years ago. On Saturday when you are in the announcer’s tower up there looking out over the stadium and you see this trail of red tail lights leaving your business. Just remember, YOU ARE OUT OF BUSINESS, your business just closed. You are out of business. And come Monday you need start doing immediately all of those things to get your business, back in business, come Saturday Night.

You can’t just say "we had a great Saturday night and come Monday I’m gonna take off because I’m worn out, and I’m tired and I know we’ll have a good crowd this coming Saturday night because we had a good one last Saturday". Well that’s not necessarily true, and in most cases it’s not at all true. That trail of tail lights, that tells you, "YOU ARE OUT OF BUSINESS". Your business just went KaBOOM. And now you have to everything on Monday to get it back into business.

A: Fantastic, that is excellent advice, very tiring advice...

L: Well it was told to me a long time ago and it didn’t mean as much then as it does today. I can reflect back on those Monday’s I didn’t do jack shit, you know what I mean.....(big laughs)
"we had a great Saturday night, I’m sure this Saturday will be really good".

A: It doesn’t work out that way, does it.

L: No, it doesn’t work out that way (laughs again) There are factors there that constantly work against you, and the competition for the entertainment dollar is ferocious.

A: DVD’s, Video games, Movies, TV, "other" racing on Saturday nights, that’s what we’re really competing against.

L: Yeah, well you know you can stay home on Saturday and watch a Busch or Truck race for free and call Dominos and get 3 large pizzas delivered for 15 dollars. I sell my pizza at 4 dollars a SLICE. So a guy could say "Hey Les, I can get 3 large for 15, and the race is free!!!" "why should I buy tickets at $10 a piece, plus kid prices to come to your track, and then you to charge me to park"???? "And I’m gonna spend $75.00 there with beer and soda, I’M NOT GONNA DO IT.....I’M JUST GONNA WATCH THE BUSCH RACE."

A: Les, from this fan, thanks so much for doing this post Carson chat. I certainly learned a lot, especially looking back to our glorious past for clues about what made us so damn good. (now I know why they made us study History in school)

I hope our teams, promoters, owners, officials, and sanctioning bodies, each took a little something from this chat to shape our future. Everyone is having a hard time out there gang. Let’s pull together, address some of these issues, and start heading back down the road to "where we were". Let’s get back to that place where "everything was as it should be"......(thanks for the quote Les)

And Les, really, I want to see you out there again one day promoting races . Hear me! We need you. Me, I’m easy to find, I’m the nut under the grandstands waiting for the rain to clear...........

Number one at the top for me is what Les didn’t say in our chat, and in fact a VERY encouraging sign.

Nowhere to be found was…………Economy, Web Sites, Sanctioning, other Tracks, Sanctioning vs. the Tracks etc., leaving financial as the biggest issue in front of us. If we can get fans back in our stands, the entire issue is behind us.
However as he pointed out, there are dozens of factors working against us.
We need to lower the costs for your "average" race fan to get in. Our average fan is the plumber, electrician, construction guy, parts counter guy, etc.
This downward spiral trend we’re seeing started a long time ago.
The 40’s, 50’s, 60’s, and 70’s were the glory years of our short track sport. Racing was affordable with trips to the auto parts store or wrecking yard.
Competition from all other entertainment sources Saturday night is our enemy. Yes, including other racing.
Our racing needs to be a financially viable business.
Promoters can be race fans too.
We need to get back to our short track "stars". Teams that we see year after year. The good guys in the white hats against the bad guys in the black hats. A building of local heroes.
Similar to when TV came in to take over radio, radio had to change. Radio changed and is as big as ever. We need to get away from our old style business of relying on a few great sponsors (Star Nursery, Lucas Oil, Spears, Stock Building, love u guys) and make our sport attractive to regular advertisers looking for return on investment, just like Cup. Lowers costs, TV, etc.
We need to make our cars and teams visible again. Out of the industrial parks and huge box car haulers. This is FREE marketing we are losing.
Concessions and large fan base pays the bills.
Costs are out of control just about everywhere.
Our tracks need more income streams.
They’re struggling to pay the bills big time, low car counts, low fan counts, underinsuring risking huge financial loss, and as a result of the previous, can’t sell sponsors.
Promoters need to understand they are opening a brand new business every Saturday night.
Make it affordable and fun for the family.